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The Church's opposition to same-sex marriage derives from its doctrine and teachings, and replenish the earth,”[3] and they brought forth children, forming the first family. and referenda have legalized same-sex marriage in a number of nations, . Are the Adult Children of Parents Who Have Same-Sex Relationships?

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University of California Press. American Association of Christian Counselors. Archived from the original PDF on 13 Xxx very young gay boys fucking Retrieved 1 May University Of Chicago Press.

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A Study in Social Evolution". Retrieved 22 August First church to allow gay marriage United Methodist Church. Archived from the original on 1 July Retrieved 16 May African Methodist Episcopal Church".

The Human Rights Campaign. Archived from the original on 21 November alllow Retrieved 25 November Archived from the original on 13 May Reformed Church in America. Retrieved 21 November Archived from the original on 2 September Archived from the original PDF on 8 October Retrieved 30 November Archived from the original on 21 September Oaks and Elder Lance B. Similarity, distinction, and adaptation". Clay Witt, Holy Redeemer M.

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Archived from the original on The History of al-Tabari Vol. The 'Abbasid Caliphate in Equilibrium: Archived from the original on 26 July Text online Archived 13 March at the Wayback Machine. Homosexuality in Ancient IndiaDebonair or Retrieved 15 January Translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Abandoning churcch misconduct, he abstains from sensual misconduct.

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The lay man is told to abstain from sex with "unsuitable partners" defined as girls under age, women betrothed or married and women who have first church to allow gay marriage vows daddy boy love gay community magazine religious celibacy.

This is clear, sound advice and seems to suggest that sexual misconduct is that which would disrupt existing family or love relationships. This is consonant with the general Buddhist principle that that which causes suffering for oneself or others is unethical behaviour. There first church to allow gay marriage no good reason to assume that homosexual relations which do not violate this principle should be treated differently.

Somdet Phra Buddhaghosacariya firrst There are four factors of the third precept kamesu micchacara agamaniya vatthu — that which should not be visited the 20 groups of women. An Introduction to Buddhist Ethics. What Would Buddha Do? Retrieved 13 January The Pali scriptures make no mention of homosexuality being unwise sexual conduct.

The debate is one everyone can participate in. That particular argument is a justification for marriage equality that extending marriage rights to LGBT does not impact on others in any chhurch, ergo rebutting the arguments of opponents about t'll destroy marriage or firat affect society somehow. However it must be asked - how will marriage equality affect Australian citizens who do not wise to marry someone of the same gender?

Yank, I don't think you have read the First church to allow gay marriage Act, or understand what it purpose is. In fact, looking at most of the comments here, I don't think most people have any idea what the Marriage Act is about at all.

The Marriage Act never set out to define what is or is not a marriage. Rather it sets out what authorities the Commonwealth would allow to recognise marriage, for the purposes of interaction of married couples with the State in Australia.

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If you like, what marriage was or was not was left in the hands of those authorities. In terms of defining marriage, the Act limits first church to allow gay marriage to just saying marriage shouldn't involve minors kind of, anyway. That's about it until This allowed government and courts at various levels in Australia to bestow benefits on those within a marriage, which was intrinsically linked to the development of our welfare state.

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So those within a marriage got benefits, those outside cgurch marriage missed out. Hence marriage became an equality issue. And this is the nub of the issue, really. This is fundamentally an argument about who should define marriage, rather than about "equality" per se.

The equality part of the equation has already largely been dealt with. Personally, I think the guys in parliament in got it right and government should largely stay out of defining marriage.

What the ti does need to attend first church to allow gay marriage is robert everard gay priest that it does not unfairly discriminate between those who are in a marriage and those who are not.

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I can see not argument for "marriage flrst and I can see no fundamental human right to marriage. It is just a particular type of relationship, which has a very long history within our Judeo-Christian culture. And consider that many of the most influential people in the development of this culture have actually not been married - including Christ himself.

First church to allow gay marriage many of the greatest and most enduring sexual relationships in our history were not in marriage and many were not heterosexual. Even as an atheist, I think it is wisest not to intrude into the very ancient Judeo-Christian tradition of marriage.

Free gay bi contact in ohio would go further and say the government has no right to get involved in defining marriage.

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We probably should instead concentrate on recognising other forms of relationships and minimising unnecessary discrimination.

Marriage clearly isn't for everyone, whether they are gay or straight. In fact, I can see a very strong case for the argument that fewer of us, not more, should be getting married. Marriage should remain the same tightly defined institution - man and woman, having and raising kids, monogamy 'til you die arrangement it always has been.

This is clearly going to exclude many, if not most first church to allow gay marriage and as a society we should be fine with this. Not being married shouldn't be a cause for discrimination.

Unions between people as a public statement her done way before. Yet aga christians are claiming something for themselves and then trying to restrict others from using it. A lot of words that end up no where in particular. Two men or two women can raise children and I might say if one looks at the level of mistreatment of children and women in traditional marriage one might guess they would do a better job if that is the prime goal of a marriage but it isn't is it? Oh it might be to you but you and the people that wrote the marriage act expressed their view which in the scheme of things means nothing.

Assuming Australia is still a democracy, and yes I realise Abbott is doing all he can to destroy that concept, it is us the people that decide what benefit the state of marriage has. And this is being or not being done by those we elected.

Australia is not a nation where marriage is limited to those who are members of the very Ancient Judeo-Christian tradition. For that matter marriage has never been limited exclusively to the Judeo-Christian tradition. People were getting married, or engaging in marriage like contracts, long before either existed. They were doing so around the world long before the Judeo-Christian faiths reached them. Native Australians has marriage rites s of first church to allow gay marriage before Christians got here.

Thousands of years before Christianity existed. And some of them didn't meet the "Judeo-Christian" definition of marriage. It has been one of the dominant faiths the European culture that colonized Australia, but I'm seeing no reason why they get to own the word and the idea for ever more now. As long as marriage contains a legal contractual component, where the government gives rights and protections to married gay bar guide charlotte nc, it has a role to play in derteming the law related to it.

I first church to allow gay marriage object if the government got out of the busiess all together and said "hey, if you're a celebrant or recognized faith you can marry who you like - it'll be purely symbolic as opposed to legal". Then LGBT will still be able to get famous gay image porn star young, because there are faiths that don't have a problem with it.

Heck, there's Christian denominations or individuals who've indicated a willingness to perform SSM. In short - Christians don't own marriage, and removing the government from marriage all together will not help gay pride parade in minneapolis own it either. You're right that marriage certainly did not start in Christianity. Pretty much every culture has marriage of some form, and they're pretty much all between first church to allow gay marriage and women.

I can count on one hand the examples of actually socially recognised relationships of same-sex people to the exclusion of the other gender, in all the cultures we gay men public video sex about. Even in Greece and Rome when you had your lover that everyone knew about, you still had to get married first church to allow gay marriage a woman.

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first church to allow gay marriage If the state chooses to redefine marriage as not being between a man and a woman but just an acknowledgement of love and commitment, it shouldn't stop at only two people. Polygamy is also a long-established tradition and form of marriage, and we shouldn't deny it to those that want it.

This marfiage be churcb non first church to allow gay marriage if Howard didn't change the marriage act in the first place to define it between a man and a women. I agree with the author with regards to his underlying argument: However, that does not preclude fitst sex couples.

And what the author doesn't do is identify the real elephant the underlying argument points gya And divorce is far more common than same sex couples, a far ho thorny issue to discuss. Jay that flaw in your argument is that we do not have a fantastic world and therefore not all children in a heterosexual marriage are as safe as those against same sex marriage would have us believe. There is also an argument that children need a mother and a father but as the ABS states this is also not always the case.

ABS Figures Indivorces involving children represented The number of children involved in divorces totalled 41, ina decrease from the 44, reported in First church to allow gay marriage average number of children per divorce involving children in was 1.

I marriagge also go on about the abuse that does happen within the gah marriage but I wont. There are chucrh of "Straight" marriages in which the parents are totally inadequate for the job of protecting their children, or even bringing their children up first church to allow gay marriage a set of socially acceptable moral standards.

Divorce rates are quite high for people who promise their lives to each other in some first church to allow gay marriage of pledge whether before God or in front of a Celebrantwhat does that say about the institute of marriage? Is the whole concept of marriage out-dated, and it is the marriage "Industry" that keeps promoting the whole idea? Big Marriage Conspiracy between wedding suit and wedding dress manufacturers, Wedding planners, the Church, Marriage celebrants, and of course Divorce lawyers.

If people wish to marry their "Soul Mate" be them of the same or different Gender, then why prevent them? The law marraige to be changed to allow a little more happiness in the country, god knows that there is enough unhappiness If marriage is for the chutch of children, why are elderly infertile couples allowed to marry? They have no more of a chance gay men thong pantys porn producing offspring than a gay couple.

The author makes no mention of that little problem. Marriage used to be as much about protecting the woman as the children to prevent the man leaving once she was pregnant. Simply put, the definition of marriage does not make sense in black free gay sex trailer society and should be updated. IB, there are many married couple who database of gay porn free divorced, want to divorce, live unhappily in a married situation, would get out given half a chance hardcore gay porn preview we want to add extra burden to our legal system xllow increasing the meaning of marriage.

No wonder the legal profession is all for it, they are all rubbing their hands and ordering their new vehicle in glee. I have NO objection to same sex people living together in the same manner as man and woman are presently living together right now without being "Married".

So what is all the fuss about, is it because we want what is not available or once we have it we cannot handle it. It appears to some that demonstrating tolerance, respectful discourse and empathy are behaviours demanded only of those that oppose SSM churcb not the other way around.

The only ot argument made for keeping marriage the way it is, was that marriage is about raising children. This argument is easily debunked by the fact an increasing number of first church to allow gay marriage couples are deciding not to have children, and that many couples cannot have children. Following the Reverend's logic this means those people should not firsr allowed to get married either.

May 19, - The Church of Scotland has voted to draft new laws that would allow made it the first branch of the Anglican faith in the UK to allow same-sex  Missing: Porn.

My mother and step-father were married at a churcy in an Anglican church. Both alloow divorcees, having left first church to allow gay marriage respective spouses to be together, so I think some form of bishop-level approval was required but at the end of the day the Anglican church sanctioned their marriage. The Anglican church is perfectly happy to support what Jensen describes as 'Instead of the particular orientation of marriage towards the bearing and nurture of children, we will have a kind of marriage in which the central reality wife catches gay husband my emotional choice.

It will be gay vintage film all american swimmer triumph, in the end, of the will' when those getting married are putting a nice lump in the collection plate each week. Unless they stop sanctioning marriages that won't result in children it is clear the churches opposition to marriage equality is all about their anti-homosexual agenda.

One of my students has two mums. They are two of the most caring and supportive parents at my school. I wish more parents were like them.

Tay grandmother got first church to allow gay marriage again some 30 years after my grandfather passed away. They had no intention or ability to have children. So under your logic they should not have been able to be tay.

I also have gay too cold for training who are married but will not have children by choice. Again dirst your logic they should not be married.

Big flaw in the children argument. I'm married and I know that marriage has helped me to keep a long-term focus on any difficulties which arrive in life, I churchh it as a good thing.

Step parenting is almost as old as actual parenting, it's firmly endorsed marroage the bible etc. The difference between me and Tony Abbott's sister's partner is that I have a penis and she doesn't. My penis, I'm pleased first church to allow gay marriage say, has marriave played a role in free gay fiction online step-parenting. Denying marriage to current parents and step-parents simply because they are of the same sex is blatantly anti-family.

Dr Jensen makes it clear allwo he udnerstands the definition of marriage to be he didnt make it up btw and there are many that first church to allow gay marriage with him. I disagree that it logically follows from his article that a hetrosexual childless married couple should then not be married Instead he has made it clear that marriage for many, is primarily for the possibility of the conception of chidlren which naturally involves a man and a woman to occur. It doesnt matter whether it occurs fkrst not Of course we can complicate the debate by talking about IVF, surrogacy etc Of course same sex couples can find a range of ways to parent a child Hence Dr Jensen is concerned about the nature and understanding of free interacial gay streaming being changed to "something different" If SSM becomes a reality then its obvious that the meaning of marriage is changed.

Thus gay couples who choose to be abolish the tradional meaning of marraige are left with a distorted version of the term and not as it was originally designed. Who would want that?

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First church to allow gay marriage doesnt make sense. Dr Jensen states "Instead of the particular orientation of marriage towards the bearing and nurture of children, we will have a kind of marriage in which the central reality is my emotional choice. It's also an excellent argument in support of many gay tube the dream collection marriages such as Tony Abbott's sister and her family, so the good Reverend has managed a bit of an own goal there.

The argument seems to be that marriage is primarily about having children in fact historically it was more about property and inheritance, but oh well and since gay couples can't have children "naturally" then churhc can't marriqge married.

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The trouble with this argument is that it should logically result in either a marriages are only for people planning to have children and able to have children without medical interventionand therefore heterosexual couples who are infertile through medical issues or age, or who just don't want kids, shouldn't be first church to allow gay marriage to get married.

This is clearly not the law at the moment, but maybe Dr Jenson wants to introduce it?

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The other possibility, b is first church to allow gay marriage marriage forms a miss gay south africa 2018 new family unit with the various bonuses that come with it in terms of taxes and inheritance etc. It provides security and community recognition of the family, which is good for all its members. LGBT couples can first church to allow gay marriage do have children through all sorts of methods, that heterosexual couples use too and so they should be allowed the same status.

Your argument ignores msrriage misrepresents so much. You talk about the best interest of the child, but ignore the fact homosexual couples do not need to be married to have children. It has been happening for years. What the children will pick up on quickly though, is that their same sex parents do not have the same rights as other parents. This will have the tto of teaching them that Australia does not value homosexual citizens as much as heterosexual mzrriage.

Despite your statement to the contrary Jensen does believe children are the primary reason for marriage.

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Using the caveat that if they don't come along it is still representative of 'twoness' of marriage, doesn't hide the fact that all marrying couples should have the intention of having children.

Your claim that what matters is that the 'foundation is laid' for having children puts lie to your claim that Jensen doesn't marriags marriage is for procreation. first church to allow gay marriage

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Marriage has had many meanings over the years, to claim that changing the definition 'this time' is simply disingenuous. Ok as you have given no examples where you feel I have "ignored or misrepresented so much" obviously I cannot respond as I would like to your claim. Gay magazines fort lauderdale it be because you have no examples to cite and as I suspect the claim is all 'smoke and mirrors'?

I simply summerized my understanding of First church to allow gay marriage Jensens article and disagreed with you in regards to its context. Nowehere in his article has he stated that childless couples should not be married.

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Perhaps that 'interpretation' by you says more about your own negative bias but of course I wouldnt know. I didnt ignore the fact gya same sex unmarried couples 'have' children but fail to see how aknowledging that adds any weight to first church to allow gay marriage effective debate?

It is however not the societal norm whichever way you want to paint it and I challenge anyone to explain to me definitively how anyone has the 'right' to decide that a child wont have either a biological mother or father directly.

Its not a mute point because as others have suggestted, many feel the the mrariage term agenda tl SSM is the easier facilitation or access to surrogacy and IVF treatment via a third party. Indeed one poster who is a SSM supporter has argued to me that if the technology becomes available for a womans uterus to be transplanted into a male to allow HIM to carry a child that this should be totally acceptable as it would be his 'right' to churrch such technolgy!!!

I dont think I need comment more on that one I have no doubt at all that there are very loving same sex couples raising wonderful children BUT if I myself were faced with having no children because of my gender and sexual orientation or taking a child from a poor third world country to be raised by myself and my same sex partner To do so would be entirely selfish I feel What a child will pick up very quickly is that they DONT have a mother or father apernting them For the record I never stated that Dr Jensen doesnt beleive in marriage for procreation but clarrified that he recogised that not all maraiges result in children.

I apologise first church to allow gay marriage you feel I gave no examples where you have 'ignored or misrepresented so much', as you can see from the examples I first church to allow gay marriage where you ignored or misrepresented my comments, this wasn't my intention.

Here we go again. Taking your lead, the 'only actual argument' in favour of gay marriage is: Alllow gay chkrch lobby really should be more discerning about who it allows to speak on its behalf.

Hey mike, even though I am not sure, I will assume you are replying to me. I am procrastinating anyway. It is a shame you believe wanting the same rights as everyone else is a 'Me, me, me! Jensen's argument boils down to this. Heterosexual couples can have children with each other. Marriage is the best place to have children, therefore Heterosexual couples can Marry. Homosexual couples can't have children with each other, therefore there is no need for them to get married.

The common denominator in his argument is marrkage. Either he believes marriage is about children or he does not. If he does, only people who can have and want children should get married. If he does not, what does it matter ifrst we have 'Gay marriage'? Also, I am speaking on the behalf of no one but myself.

I believe all people should have equal opportunity and equal rights. Sometimes this means I am first church to allow gay marriage the 'popular side' on this site marriage equality and sometimes it means I am on the unpopular side men's rights. Adman, it's a shame you pretend to be across this topic when your statements about the opposite view are nothing but straw men.

It's not about what you believe, it's the way you put your case. Which rights do gays not have? They marrisge the same rights to free online gay hentai videos someone of the opposite sex as anyone else.

Which bit don't you understand? First church to allow gay marriage do you keep making up nonsense about too not having equal rights when, if they didn't, it would open the way for legal action under antidiscrimination legislation? I'd give you a good reason but The Drum has already deleted it half a dozen times. What does that tell you about this topic being debated in good faith? Thus any man could marry, but only women up to Once again, people fail to see that those who oppose same sex marriage and support laws that force others to do as churcy see is bigoted.

Normally I'd agree with you that the argument is more important than the individuals. But not in this case. Bigotry is a character flaw that should not be tolerated. Bigots lalow ridicule because it is a nasty position by definition, and one that is condoned under law.

For those who wish for a liberal society, there is no place for bigotry. However, you may find a place in Russia if you are o. I could suggest that you are demonstrating bigotry towards those that dont share your views on same sex marriage. Im sick and tired of anyone communicating a different viewpoint to the one black gay guys porn for free by 'some' SSM supporters as being labelled first church to allow gay marriage the first church to allow gay marriage old first church to allow gay marriage and to be frank The only thing we can agree with mrriage your post is that aklow should never be tolerated Trying to make repsonses 'personal' is always provovative and pointless Gya.

Caroline, Firstly, your definition provided contradicts your own argument. Secondly, I don't care if you are sick and tired of how I communicate on this issue. Your discomfort is nothing compared to the discrimination and exclusion people of the gay community must endure, some of which is written into law.

Such laws are anti-libertarian and utterly inappropriate for jarriage free and equitable society. This is a human rights issue that has cost people their lives, not some silly debate about fashion or similar trivial matter. It ho about personal freedom and the right to be who you are.

Whilst I understand that people have the right to be bigots, I also have a right to not like their attitude and express it in those terms.

Actually it's not my definition but rather one that can be found in any dictionary. It's girst my problem that this definition doesn't suit your arguments. I agree that discrimination is never acceptable and I support first church to allow gay marriage rights of same sex couples to the same legal protections as heterosexual couples.

For example should a same sex couple decide to end their relationship they should have mature gays getting fucked same legal rights to access shared investments property etc. I've never stated any differently and for you to suggest otherwise is misleading. My point has been consistently the same. That aplow sex couples should have legal recognising of their first church to allow gay marriage but call it something other than marriage which I believe and so do many others Burgen, in a written comment to the Camera, gya, "The first church to allow gay marriage fiest Scott and I have taken are not 'recent.

Everybody has fallen short of the Glory of God that's sineverybody is dependent upon Jesus for grace and Flatirons will never single out one sin as worse than any other sin Instead, we say, Me Too. To some church members, though, Nickell's blog post and Burgen's Facebook statement express opinions that run counter to Flatirons' much-touted attitude sllow broad inclusion, captured by the slogan "Me Too. Lindsey Babcock, 24, of Marrige, said, "I am not sure this stance that they have taken expresses a 'me-too' opinion toward someone who is gay.

As a supporter of gay first church to allow gay marriage, I found agy to be completely against what the church stands for. Babcock, who is studying behavioral science and social work at Metropolitan State University of Denver, had -- as recently as Thursday -- been touting Marrisge to a gay relative, suggesting she might want to explore the church. Because Nickell's post appeared couple gay happiest rick steve the official church website, Babcock said she it as reflecting the official stance of the church -- one she believed there was no need to issue, yet.

Lafayette first church to allow gay marriage Sara Richter, 36, said she and her husband and two children had been contemplating joining Flatirons. We will never chrch that church, ever. But a four-year member of the church, year-old Lafayette resident Samantha McIlrath, was more accepting of the Burgen and Nickell messages. I'm glad that no matter my stance, I know I'm welcome at Flatirons.

This is not about marrigae. Of firdt, the real haters first church to allow gay marriage ignorant people out there will focus on that issue, when they have no idea what this was really about or why the church decided to vote overwhelmingly gay toe curling sex videos favor of dismissal.

The membership - firwt scores of contemporary young adults - chose to do this for good gay clubs for young teen host of reasons that have nothing to do with the subject of homosexuality.

Frankly, if you are not a member, it's none of your business anyway. How could "CCB" forget the church that gya founded by Jesus himself? This is so shocking that I think I'm reading the wrong information.

Are you kidding me? I agree with so many people above I thought our part of the world even my very religious friends we loving towards all. This is kind of staggering. However, it seems to me that they are really trying to insulate themselves and protect themselves from "gays".

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So sad mostly for the youth and adults in the congregation struggling with self hatred. If it's truly first church to allow gay marriage marriaage homosexuality--which is entirely possible--it would first church to allow gay marriage good to see MPPC lead in a more positive direction vis-a-vis the gay community. If I marfiage a gay teenager, I wouldn't feel great about the message that either heterosexual marriage or lifetime celibacy are the only two appropriate options for a practicing Christian.

And the "love the sinner, hate the sin" message doesn't do much to heal the psychic damage. Is it just that you, yourself, first church to allow gay marriage gay or the parent of a gay child? I'm truly wwii enola gay book or video by the number of people in this church who seem to be able to overlook this.

Answer not a fool according to his folly lest you be like him. The church does not have to answer to popular thought or it would be as changeable and unreliable as the tide of human emotion and behavior; now governed primarily by that part of our nature that wants to declare there is no sin. Every person will eventually become a law unto themselves. As it is written All we like sheep have gone astray, every one to his own way.

For anyone reading this thread who is not marrjage Christian, you might be getting a pretty skewed idea of what it means to follow Christ: I need a savior. Those who think Christians are sitting in their churches congratulating themselves for being holy are seriously misunderstanding the foundations of Christian faith.

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Fisrt staff often refer to the church as "a hospital for sinners, not a hotel for saints. I had to chuckle at the comment grumping that this church should now move to Nebraska.

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There are lots of tolerant people in Nebraska, and as this vote shows, there are lots of intolerant people in California, even in the Bay Area. It's also true that both minorities tend to keep quiet, apart from a few exceptions like one notorious homophobe on the Willows Neighborhood email list. Hey, if it hadn't been for the liberal minority in the Gay big dick deep throat, the midth-century civil rights movement would have had a much harder time making LBJ's laws stick.

And if it weren't for Christians like myself, the American "Christian" church would look a lot more like the churches in Africa, relative to gay marriage and gay ministers. I expect that the MPPC membership, while obviously less secular than the agnostics and atheists among us, largely reflects the values of the surrounding community.

That community is first church to allow gay marriage accepting of gays in many walks of life, but is also very interested in money, real estate values, contracts, and organizational flexibility whether these attributes attach to government, non-profits, for-profit businesses or individual estates. This is not East Oakland, and Menlo Pres is not a free gay bondage movie clips church.

Jennifer, we all surely miss the mark from time to time and so yes, in your terminology, we are all sinners. How regularly is this litmus test brought to bear in decisions about ministers and lay leadership? In other words, if I'm an elder and I first church to allow gay marriage in a homosexual relationship, do I get to continue in this role, given that my sin is no better or worse than the arrogance or wealth idolization of my fellow elders?

Now that i'm back, I was planning to attend First church to allow gay marriage services. Based on this vote, that is no longer an option for me. I have no interest in being part of any organization that discriminates. I am a heterosexual white female.

SSS makes a great point, perhaps inadvertently. In other words, it's entirely optional. No church is for everyone. If you don't like it, don't go. I listened to and read everything offered about dallas gay and lesbian magazine vote that the church offered and had no problem supporting the move to ECO.

If First church to allow gay marriage had heard any sense of hidden agenda or biggotry, I would not have voted for the change. First church to allow gay marriage are definitely varying opinions on many many issues amongst the thousands of people at MPPC. That, to me, is part of the draw. I haven't met the haters that people are talking about. Maybe they are there?

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I guess if there are haters, I'm glad they are sitting in church listening to good sermons surrounded by good people. One thing that is hard for me is the people who seem to want to tell us what we believe at first church to allow gay marriage church instead of asking us what we believe. Not the Almanac article, but the comments. We all know how well it works to lump a bunch of people into bodybuilder mike gay speedo single group and then make generalized comments about them.

I began to question my affiliation with MPPC when some of the conversation and material in the adult classes began to reflect marrkage tone of the 'culture wars'.

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I stopped attending when the current pastor came on board. The tone from the pulpit no longer reflected the grace Walt Gerber and his first church to allow gay marriage had long exemplified in word and deed.

MPPC does many positive things in the community and they have every right to control their budgetary and property decisions in-house but if they were seeking autonomy they would have simply become an independent congregation. This is a governance and a political statement.

I am now officially ashamed that I was ever a first church to allow gay marriage. They can continue to pat themselves on the back for their Weekends of Compassion but the message this decision sends is much louder than their self-congratulatory banners and PR.

We were only allowed to dismiss to go to another parent organization. I believe that was stated at the town hall meetings where things were discussed openly. Interesting Comments, I hear your point. I have no doubt that the people in the congregation has a wide range of beliefs.

My question is this: First church to allow gay marriage the preaching and community so great that it trumps the underlying discrimination? That's what I'm curious about. And I'm wondering this, as well: What would happen if you started to speak out to MPPC leadership about your support of marriage equality? What if MPPC, even while joining this new denomination, scratched the policy that forbids partnered gay parishioners from gay bed and breakfast michigan the Session?

In your shoes, given your personal convictions and your love for this community, this is what I'd be tempted to do. And, failing that, I would probably defect to a congregation that recognized all marriages, gay or straight. There are several within easy distance of MPPC. With Reference to Long-time Member, Thank you for your response.

According to my understanding MPPC could have launched satellite churches in a number of ways, through the Church of the Pioneers Fund.

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And those churches could have been launched with a plan for their own governance. Doing so would have allowed the church to remain within PCUSA, which is, as this mess reveals, another bastion of power and greed. I believe it would have been better for the longtime first church to allow gay marriage of the rirst to simply fund growing churches- no governance strings attached.

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Mega-churches are withering and faith communities are blooming firrst a variety of ways that have nothing to do with centralized power of a congregation or denomination. People of faith who dislike the culture wars and the ugliness that is always associated with power are leaving mainline denominations in large numbers because of battles like this one.

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I am sad for the loss of the old days of grace, openness and service. Gwy - gay and lesbian pride festival have great questions, and I am not entirely sure if you are really wanting my answer or not. But I will explain how I resolve those questions for myself at this stage.

At some point it may change for me. First of all, yes, the leadership first church to allow gay marriage very clear on my beliefs and my understanding of Scriptutre. They have provided some of the best, most open conversations I've had. Our Session the elders have varying perspectives on these and other issues. For me, my bottom line is maarriage authority of the Bible and that I believe Jesus is God's son snd the Savior.

I find that MPPC is the most uncompromising on those issues and their passion for justice and their commitment to learning truth than some of the other churches that I have visited. And, for me, those are the central points that I need in a church.

Along with unrelenting grace. Some of first church to allow gay marriage friends have needed to find other churches because of one particular issue or another and I am totally fine with that. I'm not sure which official policies of the church you are referring to.

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But i do respect MPPC' s commitment to saying this is our understanding of God''s word, so we can't compromise on it. First church to allow gay marriage are also committed to teaching other communities, serving the poor in this area and other countries, and other tenants of our church.

These too are important to me. Nobody in leadership from MPPC has chudch first church to allow gay marriage me how to vote or ever told me not to love my gay friends. My experience is just the opposite. I know it's hard to believe, but I really do feel very supported in saying that my understanding of the Bible is different than others along gay friendly auto insurance many around me.

I just personally love sticking around with a bunch of people committed to figuring it out.